RealClearPolitics shows Romney ahead in the popular vote for the first time this year
This is their "poll average." It attempts to measure national popular vote.
The electoral vote estimates still show Obama with a solid (but shrinking) lead:
- Real Clear Politics calls it 294-244.
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538 calls it 297-241 based on the average result of multiple sims. Obama's high water mark was 321-217. The site has established that Romney has a 28.8% chance of winning, but that has risen steadily from 12.9% on October 4th.
Reader comment:
I'd note that I'm profoundly suspicious of the average numbers in this case. Check out the historical poll data here:
You'll have to click "All General Election: Romney vs. Obama Polling Data" in the top table or scroll down like a common animal.
You've already discussed Romney's best score in the Pew poll. It traditionally skews Democratic but something is spectacularly wrong with the shift in partisan identity.
Take a look at the other polls that comprise the average as I'm writing this, and the previous polls by that company.
Rasmussen actually shows a 2 point increase for Obama since the debate.
Gallup has dropped 2 points for Obama since the debate and 1 additional point since the poll before that. However, Gallup has applied its LV filter between the most recent poll and the present one, and LV filters generally favor GOP candidates. Additionally, Gallup was far below the median in terms of Obama support prior to the debates. Its results have generally synced with Rasmussen IIRC.
Investor's Business Daily/TIPP has also had a swing of 4 but it to has just applied a LV model. They're previous to last poll had Obama up by 7 but this was well before the debates. ("CSM", which I'm guessing is the Christian Science Monitor, stopped polling with them. It'd be interesting to know why.)
Politico/GWU/Battleground shows a net decrease of 1.
CNN/Opinion Research is down 3 but it was conducted prior to the debate.
Now look at all those companies that previously had very good Obama numbers that haven't repolled yet.
I'm an emotionally invested Obama supporter, but it looks to me like the following has happened:
1) Certain polling outfits owing to survey methods, electorate modelling or whatever, have been showing a pronounced Pro-Romney bias or house effect, coming in below the average Obama support numbers. Some of these, like Rasmussen and Investors Business Daily have a management and clientele that skews Republican. Gallup probably does not.
2) For whatever reason, these companies were most keen to measure the immediate effect of the debate fallout. Gallup because of its bellweather reputation, the rest likely because they wanted to be the first to show a Romney upsurge as a selling point for other GOP folks who might commission polls from them.
3) Coincidentally or by design, two of them switched from RV to LV while this was happening.
4) Thus firms with a Pro-GOP bias or house effect constitute a disproportionate number of the pollsters who contribute to the latest RCP Averages.
5) By some freakish coincidence, the only poller with Dem bias or house effect gave the phone number randomizer a hit on the crackpipe this week, skewing the results even further.
6) The result is that if you
a) Throw out the obvious garbage from Pew; and b) Account for the changes brought on by the application of LV to Gallup and IBD; then you're looking at a situation where the net drift towards Romney is basically zero. When the polling from the more neutral or Dem leaning pollsters comes in the next two weeks, it'll snap back up to the pre-debate levels.
This makes sense to me because the narrative that the media is playing "Romney's debate performance has won 4-5 million voters over" is absolute fucking batshit insanity. Would these be the same voters who bailed on him for calling them parasites (basically)? What points did he make that were so persuasive 10% of the viewing audience switched their support from Obama to him? The narrative that he blew up his support base among seniors and poor whites with the 47% comment made perfect sense. What kind of voter was going to have been persuaded by his debate performance? And are there actually enough of these voters to have had the stated effect?
Scoop's comment:
We're probably getting into too much depth for my jokey little nudie-and-sports blog, not to mention my jokey little brain, but I would add a comment on the party self-identification shift in the Pew poll. That baffled me. Their September poll showed that 717 of 2424 respondents called themselves Republicans. In October it was 403 of 1201. If we establish the confidence level at 95%, that variation is too great to be caused by chance. Assuming chance to be eliminated as a cause, I studied the two polls bit-by-bit to see if Pew made a change in methodology or something, but they did not, and all their numbers were kosher. Nothing else changed significantly in the composition of the samples except the % of people who identified themselves as Democratic or Republican. I was baffled by this result until I read Nate Silver's comment on this on the 538 blog. He pointed out that party self-identification is itself fluid. If Nate is right, then it is possible that Pew could have run into that exact same shift in party ID even if they had called the exact same people as in September.
In other words, the percentage of people who identify themselves as Republican and the percentage who prefer Romney are correlated, but neither is fixed, and no causality can be presumed. We have been assuming that more people preferred Romney because more Republicans were sampled, but it may be that more people now call themselves Republicans because they now prefer Romney.
I dunno.
538 still lists Romney's chance of winning as only 28.8%, reflecting statistically what you summarized in prose, i.e. let's not go too far off the deep end until we see more evidence over a greater period of time, because (1) these polls may be misleading; (2) even if they are not misleading and the shift is real, it may be ephemeral; (3) even if the effect is neither misleading nor ephemeral, the election is decided in the Electoral College, not by the popular vote, and we need to know more about Florida, Virginia and Ohio.
"J" here.
ReplyDeleteI'd note that I'm profoundly suspicious of the average numbers in this case. Check out the historical poll data here:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html#polls
You'll have to click "All General Election: Romney vs. Obama Polling Data" in the top table or scroll down like a common animal.
You've already discussed Romney's best score in the Pew poll. It traditionally skews Democratic but something is spectacularly wrong with the shift in partisan identity.
Take a look at the other polls that comprise the average as I'm writing this, and the previous polls by that company.
Rasmussen actually shows a 2 point increase for Obama since the debate.
Gallup has dropped 2 points for Obama since the debate and 1 additional point since the poll before that. However, Gallup has applied its LV filter between the most recent poll and the present one, and LV filters generally favor GOP candidates. Additionally, Gallup was far below the median in terms of Obama support prior to the debates. Its results have generally synced with Rasmussen IIRC.
Investor's Business Daily/TIPP has also had a swing of 4 but it to has just applied a LV model. They're previous to last poll had Obama up by 7 but this was well before the debates. ("CSM", which I'm guessing is the Christian Science Monitor, stopped polling with them. It'd be interesting to know why.)
Politico/GWU/Battleground shows a net decrease of 1.
CNN/Opinion Research is down 3 but it was conducted prior to the debate.
Now look at all those companies that previously had very good Obama numbers that haven't repolled yet.
I'm an emotionally invested Obama supporter, but it looks to me like the following has happened:
1) Certain polling outfits owing to survey methods, electorate modelling or whatever, have been showing a pronounced Pro-Romney bias or house effect, coming in below the average Obama support numbers. Some of these, like Rasmussen and Investors Business Daily have a management and clientele that skews Republican. Gallup probably does not.
2) For whatever reason, these companies were most keen to measure the immediate effect of the debate fallout. Gallup because of its bellweather reputation, the rest likely because they wanted to be the first to show a Romney upsurge as a selling point for other GOP folks who might commission polls from them.
3) Coincidentally or by design, two of them switched from RV to LV while this was happening.
4) Thus firms with a Pro-GOP bias or house effect constitute a disproportionate number of the pollsters who contribute to the latest RCP Averages.
5) By some freakish coincidence, the only poller with Dem bias or house effect gave the phone number randomizer a hit on the crackpipe this week, skewing the results even further.
6) The result is that if you
a) Throw out the obvious garbage from Pew
b) Account for the changes brought on by the application of LV to Gallup and IBD
Then you're looking at a situation where the net drift towards Romney is basically zero. When the polling from the more neutral or Dem leaning pollsters comes in the next two weeks, it'll snap back up to the pre-debate levels.
This makes sense to me because the narrative that the media is playing "Romney's debate performance has won 4-5 million voters over" is absolute fucking batshit insanity. Would these be the same voters who bailed on him for calling them parasites (basically)? What points did he make that were so persuasive 10% of the viewing audience switched their support from Obama to him? The narrative that he blew up his support base among seniors and poor whites with the 47% comment made perfect sense. What kind of voter was going to have been persuaded by his debate performance? And are there actually enough of these voters to have had the stated effect?
"J" again.
ReplyDeleteBlame chronic illness leaving me on disability, and insomnia caused by a senile cat who apparently isn't going to stop pawing my face for attention when I want to sleep no matter how much food and water he's given for my overactive brain.
I spent some time digging into the detailed Presidential State and Senate polls in Silver's database. A lot of recent Pres. state polls are from dudes with Rasmussen-like House effects. Gravis Marketing in particular seems hugely right leaning. (Gravis is brand new and very sketchy. It would not surprise me if they are this year's "Strategic Vision", just making numbers up.)
That said, there are polls supportive of the "Big Swing" theory. A pair of University of New Hampshire polls from before and after show a major downtick in Obama's support on par with Pew, as do a pair of before and after Massachusetts Senate polls by the same company, the Boston Globe, I think.
If I could have any polls to corroborate my theory, it would be a followup to the Arizona 10/3 poll by PPP showing a tie in the Senate race between Carmona and Flake, and a followup by the last company that polled North Dakota's and found Heitkamp tied with Berg. There are lots of Blue Dog dems in these kind of states that split the Senate/Pres ticket Dem/GOP on a regular basis, there are a lot of pork loving Republicans who do the same. But it's very tough to conceive of a universe where Carmona in particular can be competitive without Obama pulling a significant number of Independants with his coattails.
A couple SurveyUSA polls just appeared that put Romney just one point behind in Nevada and Ohio, but SurveyUSA had him 2 points behind in Nevada in August when others had 3 or 5. Chalk it up to I don't know.
In the interest of the funny here's the following:
A high school buddy of mine and I have a high stakes bet for the princely sum of one beer that is presently constructed as follows:
I win if Obama gets 330 or more EV, the Dems gain 2 or more Senate seats (4 being the realistic maximum with 5 a remote possibility if Kerrey somehow wins Nebraska or Corker turns out to be able to blow Tennessee, 6 if both, with the only other possible gain being Susan Collins of Maine seeing the writing on the wall and defecting in the event such a GOP catastrophe), and the Dems take 30+ House seats and Pelosi getting the gavel.
He wins if Romney takes 60% or more of the EVs, GOP takes the Senate and keeps the House.
He and a Libertarian classmate both get a consolation beer if Obama wins.
I've suggested very strongly that he should set explicit numbers for gains or losses so I can submit it to one of the analysis sites for arbitration on who came closer since the probability right now is that nobody wins as stated. I've also offered to move the Obama EV requirement up to 350 as an added handicap, since his EV projection is much more unlikely.
On the 95% confidence, there actually is a cartoon about it from the Geeky Stick Figure Webcomic XKCD.
http://xkcd.com/882/
The joke is blink and you'll miss it. They do 20 studies on the correlation of specific jelly bean colors to acne and find 19 with no correlation and a 95% confidence and 1 showing green jelly beans had a correlation with the same confidence. ("p > 0.05" means 95% confidence, the newspaper headline implies that the "p < 0.05" is a typo.) Finding one bogus result in 20 tests with 95% confidence is exactly what you'd expect. Improbable <> Impossible.
Even nerdier example: Sometimes you roll a natural 1 on your d20 attack and fumble your weapon.
Better example:
It's a several billion to one shot, but sometimes Ray Romano watches some random guy beat another random guy's Quad Aces with a Royal Flush at the World Series of Poker. (I will note that Royal Flush guy appears to be Leprechaun.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPTHNr8s76w
Follow that up with PPP showing a Romney lead with party ID numbers that corroborate Pew. Time to get a new theory. Still want to see Ras show Romney with a 10 point lead though. And PPP hasn't done a national tracking poll since April? What's up with that?
ReplyDelete