Trump calls for comedian Samantha Bee to lose her job
This is the one case in a thousand where I kind of agree with him. There was no call for Bee to use that kind of language to refer to the President's daughter. Imagine how Bee would have reacted if Trump had called her, or let's say Nancy Pelosi, a "feckless cunt." (Although that's unlikely since it is doubtful that Trump knows what "feckless" means.) Trump had already lowered the national discourse to what I thought was a new nadir, but Bee even trumped Trump. She didn't just stoop to his level, but actually crawled down beneath it!
Ehh...this isn't like Obama's daughters or the Bush twins. She is actively participating in the political arena. Just like you should be able to call Ted Cruz a shitbag or Pelosi the decaying corpse of a sunlit vampire, calling Ivanka a cunt is a really vulgar thing to say but nothing anyone should lose their job over. I feel that Baron is off limits and Trumps daughter he never talks about as well, but if you want to wade into the swamp you kind of have to accept the risk that you will get hit with something vile.
ReplyDelete"but nothing anyone should lose their job over".
DeleteYou mean like Roseanne?
Calling someone a cunt isn't the same as saying something racist about someone else.
DeleteBut I can see how a racist like you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
@Gent
DeleteAre you saying that Roseanne called her a cunt as well?
If you think that there isn't a difference between calling a woman a cunt and comparing a black woman to an ape you're either a fucking idiot or you're a racist piece of shit. I don't know you so I won't presume to answer for you but feel free to let us know.
I do wonder what Bee was thinking...didn't anyone on her writing staff think that was really pushing it?
ReplyDeleteBut as usual Trump is full of shit. Ted Nugent called Hillary a cunt and he got to visit the White House!
Samantha Bee could hardly have gone lower than Donald Trump.
ReplyDeleteForget Samantha Bee—Donald Trump Has Called Women ‘C*nt’ for 30 Years
https://www.thedailybeast.com/forget-samantha-beedonald-trump-has-called-women-cnt-for-30-years
The lowest of the low though was when Trump mocked the reporter with physical disabilities.
Geez, Adam, are you STILL harping on that reporter thing? It has been proven over and over that Trump was not doing that. Only ONE "news" service reported it that way - CNN. Big surprise, huh?
DeleteThat is bullshit. Of course, that's what an idiot Trump cultist like you would mindlessly chant.
DeleteIt was not just reported on CNN, and the facts of the case are quite clear.
Deletehttps://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/public-editor/trump-streep-golden-globes.html
You are a God Damned liar like your hero Trump, you pathetic piece of shit. Please stop replying to my posts, I'm sick of dealing with you, you fucking idiot.
And if you think that's too angry, try this. Do the world a favor and kill yourself. Nobody will miss you and you will make the world a better place by your absence.
DeleteThis is not false equivalence. Bee's words were just as bad as Barr's. The c-word is the worst word in the English language to refer to a woman. It is, like the n-word, part of the third rail. Whether Trump himself has used it is irrelevant. Whether he is a hypocrite is also irrelevant. Trump's use of it (or not) doesn't mean it's OK. What is relevant is that Bee used it, and it is inexcusable, just like Kramer's use of the n-word. If I were her network boss, I would cancel her show. (And I like her!)
ReplyDeleteThis has nothing to do with the Bush girls or the Obama girls. I grant that Ivanka is an active part of the government. Doesn't matter. How would you feel if Roseanne Barr had called Nancy Pelosi a feckless cunt instead of insulting Valerie Jarrett? Wouldn't you still feel that she have lost her show? This is EXACTLY the same thing.
The real equivalence for this then would be that Trump should be impeached and convicted.
DeleteIf Bee should be fired for the use of the c-word, clearly so should Trump.
The word cunt is not close to the same as a racial slur.
DeleteI don't even care for Samantha Bee but it's not even close. Roseanne got fired cause she's bigly racist. Samantha Bee attacked a public figure with a bad joke and honest insult. I don't condone it but it's just not the same.
Cunt is used on a daily basis and part of colloquialisms in Ireland and the UK. Racial slurs are generally not used in and accepted in casual conversation.
You know that gender slurs are just as bad as racial slurs, right?
DeleteIf a man called a woman the 'c word' I think it could be argued that it's male superiority and the same as racism. When a woman says it to a woman, I don't think that's the same thing.
DeleteOf course, the use here is not the same as when black people call each other 'the n word,' but there was obviously no sexism involved.
Also, let me point out that Samantha Bee did not make a bad joke. There is no joke at all. There is no world where calling somebody a feckless cunt is funny, nor any reasonable American person who would find it funny (British slang doesn't matter, unless she was doing a show in Britain.) In American usage, she simply used hate speech.
DeleteAs I pointed out before, the major point here is that liberals should not open this door. Tomorrow Anne Coulter says Nancy Pelosi is a feckless cunt, and there is no remaining defense. It is simply inexcusable.
Scoop...
DeleteYou’re ignoring an important fact... Bee is a Brit. To Brits the C word is common usage. They’re actually more offended by the F word over there. So from a cultural standpoint, Bee probably thought very little of her choice of words. It’s the equivalent of calling someone a bitch in the US.
She's Canadian not British. The word is not in common usage here. The problem with Scoop's argument is that The President of the United States already uses this word and other disgusting terms publicly. I don't think it matters what liberals say when the President has already opened the door.
DeleteI stand by my earlier point, a woman calling another woman this term can not be used in a way to claim superiority like racist comments are. If, Bill Maher had said this, hopefully he would have been fired, and I suspect he would have been.
She's Canadian, and as everyone knows, you can't say cunt in Canada ...
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG_cp-xxHsw
The fact that the President uses pejorative, racist, sexist hate speech is vile. That does not make it OK when anyone else does it. He represents the very worst of the American character, the vulgar, soulless, superficial, bragging, condescending, tasteless, hateful "ugly American" despised by the rest of the world.
DeleteWe don't want to say his bad behavior opens up the door for the rest of us to be just as vulgar and hateful toward one another.
God knows we set the bar low enough in the USA, but one thing we should aspire to is to be better than Donald Trump. That, at least, is a reachable goal.
I just can't go with that. I agree that Samantha Bee shouldn't have said what she did, but this whole conservative/Republican campaign against her is pure manufactured OUTRAGE!
DeleteI don't think there is anything wrong with questioning the motives of those expressing OUTRAGE! the loudest.
If they are truly so concerned, they should call up their Republican Congress people and tell them to impeach and convict Trump.
If the standard is that people are to be fired for using disgusting language, then they need to show they mean it but holding EVERYBODY to the same standard.
And if they don't support that it shows they don't actually care about disgusting terms, and are just lying for political purposes.
DeleteTo me, a liar is far worse than a person who uses some disgusting words.
Bullshit
DeleteCunt is not the same.
ReplyDeleteSo you can say this word as a joke in Britain? But not in America? Ya... ok.
So it wasn't used in a funny way it's not the same as racial slur. It's just not on that level. If you wanna go there, then bitch should also be right up there too.
And if you guys really wanna go down this road then I expect all ethnic slurs and cultural appropriation to have this same debate and outrage. Which would mean for a lot of drastic changes...
Cinco de mayo, st. Patrick's day... all have to be changed.
The outrage over this needs to be equal otherwise it comes off as hypocritical.
And for the record Ann Coulter and Nancy Pelosi are both feckless cunts.
I'm gathering that you don't speak American English. Bitch is a 3 on the outrage scale. The c-word is up there with the n-word as a 10. It is the worst thing one can call someone in the traditionally oppressed category.
DeleteWe can't extend from that to say any ethnic slur is equivalent to that. There are some that are bad, and there are others that are always inexcusable.
Its just a word. Period. The intent behind that word is always what's relevant.
DeleteRoseanne has a history of foolish and racist behaviour. She openly supports a very racist President. She already lost multiple people from her show even before the tweet.
Sam Bee does not show a pattern of misogynist behaviour. Quite the opposite actually. She used strong language once to call out a corrupt political operative and business person.
The two examples are worlds apart and aren't even remotely equivalent.
I don't think that Trump, as President of the USA, should be calling for anyone to be fired. Just like he should not be calling for NFL players to be fired for not standing up at the national anthem. He is supposed to be above that, a leader.
ReplyDeleteShould Bee be canned, perhaps. But that line was not an off the cuff remark like the one Barr tweeted. Bee's was part of a script that most likely went through several levels of review given the word used. So should Bee be canned? Should her show runners...channel management?
The art of civil discourse is lost in this day and age. It is sad. I read friend's social media and see how quickly it dives in the gutter when politics, music, arts, etc. are brought up. The language, the mean spirited barbs. Safest thing would just have a social media or network show just about kitten and puppy videos.
Whether Trump should be involved is immaterial. The network was right to axe Roseanne Barr for her hate speech, it was right to blackball Kramer for his hate speech, and it would also be correct to fire Samantha Bee for her hate speech.
DeleteBut I agree with you in the sense that it is her network's decision, not mine or Trump's or the government's. The First Amendment even applies to Canadians!
Samantha Bee is a Canadian. She knew full well the power of what she was doing, and she knows it now.
ReplyDeleteYou could argue that what Bee said was worse than what Barr tweeted, but only in the sense Barr gave in to an impulse (a horrible racist impulse) and what Bee said was scripted, edited, and presumably approved by someone at TBS. I still think that what Barr did was worse, because at least Bee was trying to make a political point and trying to get a laugh (not by telling a joke, but by shocking the audience). It was still horrible. What was the purpose behind attacking Valerie Jarret? Not that having a purpose could justify that tweet. But I still wonder why?
ReplyDeleteI think one thing we should observe is the reason Bee, her writers and producers, and the network thought it was acceptable to say such a thing (until the outrage). It is completely socially acceptable among progressive elites to use the most horrible and denigrating language to refer to Trump. They were thinking of Ivanka as an extension of her father. That's how it made it to air in the first place. Trump does bring it on himself. He has lowered the level of debate in this country to subterranean levels. But he has had a lot of help on both sides. Just reading the comments here you see it ("your either a racist or an idiot") I have to say Scoopy is right. we all need to aspire to be better than Donald Trump.
If it was okay for Ted Nugent to call Hillary that, and get invited to the Oval Office...
ReplyDeleteIf it was okay for there to be shirts SOLD at Trump rallies during the elections calling Hillary that same word...
Then yes, it is now acceptable vernacular thanks to who? The President himself for allowing it to be said numerous times about his opponent.
What, someone calls his little girl a name and now he wants to use the bully pulpit of the entire American Government to get her fired? Name another president EVER who did that (at least so openly and public.)
That's the thing, it wasn't ok for Ted Nugent, Trump, or Samantha Bee. It's not ok for anyone.
DeleteIf it's not okay for anyone to use those terms, then Trump needs to be impeached and convicted (I.E fired) for using those terms.
DeleteUntil conservatives agree to that, then it's fine for liberals to argue among themselves if they should be civil or not, but no supporter of Trump has any right to join that conversation.
I thought Bee used a disgusting term that I hate and haven't once repeated here, and I dislike her more for using it because I'm beginning to suspect she and the people on her show used it intentionally after the Roseanne firing to generate controversy. (Has Bee ever used the term before?)
However, when it comes to supporters of Trump manufacturing OUTRAGE! over it, I agree with President John Adams:
“Be not intimidated...nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice.”
I despise Trump. I voted against Trump. I don't see how he has any business being president, with the unfortunate exception of him having won the election (in the electoral college). Still, I just don't see how using offensive language rises to the level of a high crime or misdemeanor. Does that make me a Trump supporter? There are some issues where I agree with Trump. Others on which I disagree. All in all, I'd much prefer President Pence. Liberals should be careful what they wish for. I have no doubt that Al Gore would have been reelected in 2000 if Clinton had been convicted. Would you trade getting rid of Trump tomorrow for a Pence reelection in 2020? I think the resentment among Trump voters would be even more toxic if that happened so I'll be against impeachment unless actual crimes are uncovered. But we'll have to see what happens.
DeleteThere is no moral equivalency between a vulgar term for a vagina and a racist comment. She should have used another slang word for it like 'pussy' and nobody would have said anything.
ReplyDeleteTed Nugent called Hillary the same word and Trump's taking pictures with him in the Oval Office. I don't remember the Right's outrage then.
It's all fake, manufactured outrage from BOTH sides, and everyone here knows it.
ReplyDelete